Game over, dudes!
Wednesday, December 12th, 2007Once again, Gates of Vienna and the Center of Vigilant Freedom has replied to LGF by basically saying: “Look at his sources, they’re all idiots“.
Once again, while pointing at me as one of those idiots, they have not refuted a single of the arguments I have made, nor have they pointed out a single factual flaw of mine.
Still, I would have hoped an attack on my credibility as a source to at least be based on facts. Instead they are based on a very big lie and on a number of distortions – which sort of seems to be the name of the game for GoV and also for the Center of Vigilant Freedom.
I do not consider it to be worth my time to engage in a debate on my understanding of the Eurabia-theories at Gates of Vienna, but I will give a reply here.
“Strømmen’s book on “Eurofascism” will soon be published”.
In fact it is already available, but I’ll take the blame for that one myself, as I have not have time to update the information on my book everywhere on my web site yet (and obviously those CVF-folks did not have enough time to do research to notice the big, freakin’ banner on top of this page). Anyway, the book can be bought here. Buy it. Read it. Research my claims. Scrutinize my sources. Argue with my analysis. But don’t whine about me being a socialist or a leftist or not liking Fallaci.
“He is fond of applying the “fascist” label rather widely — to Oriana Fallaci, also here, where he states that support for Fallaci can lead to “politically motivated violence.“”
I have attacked Fallaci many times, and I have even compared her writings with those of fascists, for instance I my Norwegian-language essay “Idiotiens styrke” (The Strength of Idiocy) and also in my book – where I compare the works of Oriana Fallaci and Francis Parker Yockey. You can fairly say that I am critical of Fallaci, as I have also pointed out here.
However, I have not called Fallaci herself a fascist, not in my book, not in the two articles GoV is linking to.
What I have noted is that Fallaci, as well as Bat Ye’or, has contributed to the mythos of Eurofascism through propagating the Eurabia conspiracy theory. In my article “The Third Kind of Fallaci Supporter“, which GoV points to above, I have noted the following:
There is river five miles wide between being critical towards Islam and supporting a ban on the religion, even if your criticism is based on a monolithic understanding. [There is] a river five miles wide, [but] some people are setting up a regular ferry service, based on the notion that the guys on the other side are playing on their own team.
And those people running that ferry service really are promoting the kind of hatred that easily can turn into politically motivated violence. They might not want that, but if you promote Oriana Fallaci’s understanding of Islam, that’s what you will get. To some degree, violent conflict is already here, and I do not want to leave it to historians to criticise those who willingly spread the kind of poison Fallaci stoid for. This is the time to pick up the pen.
Now, I do not expect Charles Johnson, or any other LGF-er for that matter, to agree with me in my attacks on Fallaci. In fact, I expect them to disagree and to deliver heavy criticism. But I still expect them to consider the facts that I have presented on that topic and on other topics, regardless of disagreement with my analysis. In short: I expect them to act like grown-ups. They have. The GoV/CFV-crowd hasn’t.
LGF – GoV/CFV: 1-0
But let us continue:
In his “fisking” of Mark Steyn (America Alone) he denies the existence of any Eurabia project, and then gives us our marching orders: “So, here’s the deal: An increasing number of Europeans will be Muslim. Deal with it.”
What about discussing the factual points brought up in my fisking? No, no, don’t worry about that. I’m just a “notorious leftist“, so why listen to me at all?
Anyway: Yes, I do deny the existence of a great plan of turning Europe into Eurabia; cooked up by European Union bureaucrats, leading EU politicians, the Vatican and professors of literature. It’s a conspiracy theory, and not even a particularily creative one. It is based on some doubtful sources (see, I can play that game, too), on doubtful use of other sources and on a seriously flawed analysis. I find the Eurabia “thesis” to be utter nonsense.
Now, I realise that a number of people disagree with me about that. Which is fine. I still expect them to behave like adults and consider the facts that I have put on the table in a serious manner. At LGF, they have. In the Center of Vigilant Freedom, they’re seemingly not capable of this very simple task.
LGF – GoV/CFV: 2-0
And, yes I gave you marching orders. I noted:
That being said: Yes, Europe is changing. In some ways, it is becoming the new America. You remember the poem, don’t you?
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”This is what Europe has to live up to, and I’m not sure it is up to the challenge. Even if it is, it is hardly going to be painfree. Still, closing the borders is not really an alternative, as one look at North Korea should tell you. So, here’s the deal: An increasing number of Europeans will be Muslim. Deal with it.
Since I am “a notorious leftist”, I hope you all appreciate the anti-American tendency in the above text. I mean, I’m almost as anti-American as Voorpost. Or am I not?
Btw, Voorpost is close to Vlaams Belang. Which you support with all your energy. And LGF has the common sense and insight to criticise them. Good for them!
LGF – GoV/CFV: 3-0
Once again, back to the Gates of Vienna:
“Elsewhere he writes of the fascists whom he finds everywhere EXCEPT in Islamofascism, for which he is an enthusiastic apologist”.
Actually, the article linked to by GoV/CFV is referring to a number of very specific cases of Eurofascism – which is not at all present “everywhere” (for instance it is almost negligible in the Netherlands, as it is in Norway). The article also notes:
Experiences from other European countries show that kids growing up in Western European countries have joined up with organisations that could be described as Islamofascist, and the terror attacks in Madrid and London were indeed conducted by such recruits to holy war.
And:
In the Muslim world, Islamofascism is very much capable of creating mayhem and might potentially topple governments. While only ripples are likely to be felt in Europe, even ripples of the large-scale political violence of today’s Iraq can be very bloody.
Apologetic indeed. Just because I don’t sound like I’m raving-bloody-mad.
In fact, I have written several articles on Islamofascism, including this one, and – more recently – this one. I have also posted several of Martin A. Lee’s excellent essays on the connections between European fascists and various Islamic groups here, here and here. I have also repeatedly criticised Norwegian leftists for supporting groups such as the Hamas and the Hizb’allah. I’ve got so many examples of that, that I don’t even bother to include the links here.
To call me an enthusiastic apologist of Islamofascism is a lie – and nothing but a lie.
And yet, it is correct that I believe that European politicians should worry about Eurofascism more than they worry about Islamofascism.
To say that they should focus on Eurofascism instead of Islamofascism was a sloppy formulation on my hand (a very male slip, since I of course have problems focusing on more than one thing at a time). It has been changed in later versions of the referred text; as I obviously believe European politicians should worry about these guys too. Not to mention these fellows.
But… I have dug deeply into the cesspool of European fascism… and I am freaked out by what I have found. I am freaked out by the fact that parties with close connections to fascist groups, and parties that are largely infested by anti-Semitism, anti-liberalism, anti-democratic views, etc. are winning a considerable number of votes in various European countries. I am very, very worried. Once again, I challenge every single one of my readers to dig for themselves, to scrutinize my sources and to find out for themselves. I believe that they will end up being rather worried as well. If not, they might just be in on it.
And if you deny that a fascist cartoon rat is a fascist cartoon rat, and try to sell it as – what was it – “a widespread symbol of youthful rebellion”, then you come bloody close to being in on it.
Now, I agree with CVF that not all the examples that have been used by LGF in this debate are equally valid (and I will discuss this in greater detail in a later post).
For instance, a mere link on someone else’s web page is hardly a proof of a connection. I have found Nazis linking to the Norwegian blogger VamPus, who happens to be a member of the Norwegian Concervative party. Obviously that turns neither her nor the Conservative Party into fascists.Thus, exhibit 4 in this post by Charles is a weak argument.
Sadly for GoV, the proven links between Vlaams Belang and fascist groups go a bit further than links on someone’s homepage. Charles Johnson has discovered that. GoV and CVF remains, most likely willingly so, blind.
LGF – GoV/CFV: 4-0
















