A reader has responded to my post Fisking Mark Steyn and since the response both has little to do with Mark Steyn and is very interesting as a point for further discussion, I have decided to reply in a separate post. I will respond to his post part by part, but let me begin with one of his main points, namely that parties promoting xenophobia are on the rise across Europe because the left has somehow failed.
I am not sure I agree with Iblis, as my reader calls himself, in how the left has failed. I am, however, in full agreement with him in the notion that the left – and for that matter the liberal right – has failed. European integration policies are not extremely successful, and this is the case for a number of reasons. Also, feminist groups, left-wing and right-wing alike have failed to raise to raise the role of women in immigrant communities. I have written quite extensively on this at earlier occassions, in between what Iblis describes as my “whining on the internet”. One example is my article, “Our own madness” where the reluctance of the left to address some central issues is one of my central points.
The (still short) FAQ-section of this page also should serve to give a better understanding of my point-of-view.
Then for my response to Iblis, who writes:
You seem dedicated to “expose the renaissance of hatred”. Exposing racism is a noble cause indeed, if there really is any racism to be exposed. If rising fascism in Europe is a problem, the first step in contering the problem should be to find the causes of the problem, not whine on the internet as you do.
One might say the same thing about another problem, namely the perceived rise of Islamic fundamentalism in Europe. If this is indeed a problem, the first step in countering the problem should be to find the causes of the problem, not whine on the Internet as quite a number of people, including Iblis himself with his blog “Right Wing Revolution”, does. Sadly, the far right seems totally incapable of understanding the root causes of for instance the rebelling youth of mostly immigrant background in France. It does not with a lack of understanding. People who do point out central root causes, and the obvious similarities to for instance the Watts riots, are consistently being ridiculed.
In other words: Iblis should apply the same standards towards what many refer to as Islamic fascism (and perhaps rightly so) as he wants me to apply towards what I refer to as fascists. To quote Starship Troopers: “If you want to kill the bug, you have to understand the bug”.
Personally, I believe the best understanding of the problems France do face and will face comes from people like Fadela Amara who speaks out against both what she refers to as “green fascism”, and against the blatant racism of the far right. If people like Iblis were really concerned about for instance Islamic radicalism or criminal immigrant youth; they would ally with Amara. Of course, that’s difficult for them; she is of immigrant background and she is a Muslim. As Iblis clearly demonstrates in the rest of his comment, that makes her part of the problem, not part of the solution.
That kind of thinking is not fascist in itself. But when it comes from political parties with provable historical ties to fascist politicians, movements and parties, such as the British National Party, the French Front National or the Flemish Vlaams Belang, you should consider the possibility.
What is the cause of rising fascism in Europe in 2006 (I dont necessary agree with you that critics of muslim immigration can b[l]e labeled fascist, but I will use the word “fascist” for now, because that is your rhetoric)?
I do not agree with “me” that critics of Muslim immigration can be labeled fascist either. I am not saying that all Islam critics or all who oppose or are critical to immigration are fascists. I have never said so. It would be wrong. What I am saying is that there are genuine fascists who are playing political roles on the socalled far right and that there are people who have genuinely fascist ideas. I am also saying that a certain tendency towards fascism is penetrating well into a number of European far right parties, but I have described this as “a touch of madness“, not as “utter madness through-and-through”.
Why is right-wing political parties getting support?
I’m not sure a party like Vlaams Belang is right-wing at all, and I think a number of market liberalists I know have every right to be offended when the party is referred to as far right. But why does for instance Front National get support? There are a number of factors that play a role, including the left’s reluctance to raise some central issues concerning immigration and integration, but also including for instance media coverage and the creation of myths done by the far right itself. Who would have thought, after hearing the propaganda of the far right, that the crime rate in Belgium is considerably lower in 2005 than it was in 2000? Who would have though, listening to bloggers like Iblis, that the murder rate in Norway is lower now than it was in the 1970s? In Oslo, described by Iblis as a “multicultural hellhole”, there had been 10 – ten – murders this year when the last statistics were reported in early October. I would not be surprised if a casual reader of newspapers would guess a number ten or even twenty times higher.
Remember, no one asked the millions of european workingclass people if they really wanted third world immigration in the first place. Now they strike back. How can you ask of them to adapt to the “new Europe” if they dont want it? Working against social phenomenons you dont like is basic politics, and it makes very much sense.
Most Western European countries, with the exception of Spain and Portugal, which was ruled by fascist regimes well after WWII, are and have been democratic countries where people can vote. That, my friend, is basic politics, and it means that the European worker class people you seemingly worry about, have had every chance at voting out the parties supporting immigration. Truly, a number of neo-fascist party try to sell the idea that Europeans have never had a say, blaming the “marxists” (including liberal socialists), or “the left-wing” (including right-wing liberals) or even, in the case of several European far right politicians, the Jews (!) for it. In other words, your pretense is false.
Still, you are of course perfectly entitled to work against “social phenomenons” you do not like. Just do not expect me to agree with you.
To label it “fascism” without trying to understand is just counterproductive, because you push the people even more away from the political establishment.
Agreed. See above.
The demographic factor you seem to downplay also plays a major concern in this. Today almost 40% of Oslos firstgraders are non-european. In twenty years they will make out 40% of Oslos 26 years old. There is not many non-violent ways to change that fact.
I am not at all downplaying the demographic factor (although I am not upscaling it either, as you are when you cleverly add “almost” to a higher number than the actual, and then leave the “almost” out in the following sentence). I am pointing out that the most central demographic development in the world at this time in history is not immigration to Europe, it is the demographic revolution going on in large parts of the socalled developing world, including most Muslim countries. Immigration to Europe is a side-effect.
Mark Steyn’s description is heavily flawed, as he bases his understanding on the Gaza Strip and Yemen, rather than basing it on the majority of Muslim countries. The process going on is, in many ways, very similar to the demographic revolution Europe went through in the 1800s. In the 1860s as many as ten to fifteen per cent left Norway. They were welcomed in the United States, although some of them were also met with xenophobia and prejudices.
One member of the Wisconsin legislative council said, in a time were black people were not exactly treated fairly, that “the negroes here were more intelligent, more civilized, better acquainted with our institutions…” than the Norwegians, whom he “[had seen] living without what any other people would have considered the most absolute necessaries of life, burrowed so to say in holes in the ground, in huts dug in the banks of the earth”. This time around, the new colossus is lifting her lamp besides the Golden Door of Europe – and, of course, Europe will change. The numbers you refer in your article seem accurate enough (of course, good numbers does not make for good conclusions, but that’s another story). Your comment above is more worrying:
There is not many non-violent ways to change that fact.
Can you explain to me what that actually means? Which non-violent ways are there, and what do you suggest to do if these non-violent means do not work?
You continue:
From my perspective the immigration policy of the socialdemocratic parties in Norway are the very cause of the negative social development in Oslo and Norway. [...] No, I rather cast my vote for those who promise to end insecurity and stop muslim immigration. They may not succed in delivering those promises, but at least they try. The lefts only solution is to make things even worse.
There is one big problem with that logic. The problem is not your notion that the immigration policy of the social-democratic parties is unsuccessful, resulting in negative social developments (which I hope is not simply a codeword for “bloody foreigners”, although I have my suspicions). The problem is your notion that it helps voting for “those who promise to end insecurity and stop Muslim immigration”. In Norway, you will have to look long and hard for any political party giving those promises, of course, but in a number of European countries the people who make those promises come from the same political movement as the guy who wrote this some decades ago:
But, on the other hand, nothing gives better proof of the vital forces of a people [...] than that one day, through a happy decree of Destiny, a man arises who is capable of liberating his people from some great oppression, or of wiping out some bitter distress, or of calming the national soul which had been tormented through its sense of insecurity, and thus fulfilling what had long been the universal yearning of the people.
I think I will leave it up to my readers to guess who that man was. Your final claim, Iblis, is the following:
The political climate in Norway and Europe is really depressive, but it is one thing that is positive. The positive thing is that my view (which you may label “fascist”) is much more common among the young people. My generation seem alot more concerned with muslims and immigration than those who rule today.
In fact, the younger generation is – in general – more positive towards immigration and immigrants than older people. I guess we are not all living in the same bubble. And… I am quite happy I am not sharing a bubble with you.